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Re: RE: AM Power level question to the Oracle....
To: CRTech <crtech@crtech.org>
Subject: Re: RE: AM Power level question to the Oracle....
From: Mike Shane <somethingorother@cox.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2018 00:21:51 -0400 (EDT)
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In-reply-to: <4093dd0c-78cb-4044-b1fd-b9ac750f5bbf@localhost>
References: <000001d4584f$5b4b28e0$11e17aa0$@aol.com> <9b1bb1b75cfb8b1066534923c36d03a0@knlr.com> <CAHL64sGreyN0+ozmcbSHawKPU7-jhr+zQ2yMYKeFmJ-r2YTWLw@mail.gmail.com> <77e55edd-8a24-f7d6-2637-a92a0d494c5e@munn-reese.com> <4093dd0c-78cb-4044-b1fd-b9ac750f5bbf@localhost>
Reply-to: Mike Shane <somethingorother@cox.net>
At one station we had an existing PSRA for 500 watts, which because of locations and frequency  doesn't start at 6 a.m. in December and January but 6:15 a.m. which is sunrise at the class A to the east.

Back before night power, that meant sign-on wasn't until 6:15 those two months.

Concerning PSSA, the station has several levels, depending on what month it is, for the first two hours after sunset.  The highest level is 88 watts and I think the lowest is 48 watts.  But the authorized night power being 54 watts supersedes anything below it.

What's interesting is that the original PSSA (1986-ish) was for only no more than 6.8 watts, again with the different levels calculated per the rule Ed cited.  Somehow when we got night power at 54 they decided the PSSA levels could be higher.  (It very well could be that we could have gotten them increased sooner had we known to try.)  

So what COULD be done, with just a notification to the FCC, is start using the PSSA levels which are over 54 watts at their assigned times, which would result in almost +3dB at the highest level.  

54 watts covered the ground fairly well...until LD Radio (low definition).  There was a breather for awhile when the adjacent class A stopped using it, but they started up again.  When they're coming in well (which is most nights) it's like hollering over the ocean.

So going by what Ed said, the present way to do this is to have your consultant do the math and produce what the FCC used to do for us, make a way to do it, then tell them you are commencing doing it.  It appears that certain stations with peanut whistle power at night could maybe get a little more power for an hour or two after sunset.

I know of another station (a former daytimer, now a substandard class B) with 1000 watts day and 300-something night.  Someone said there was an existing PSRA for this station of 500 watts, which could be used between 6 a.m. and sunrise, but never produced the paperwork.  Lo and behold, when the FCC came out with the history cards, I found it!  So since there is SOME record of it, one might say one could notify the FCC and begin using it, but it would probably be advisable to run it by one's consultant first.

I did that with the 54 watt station and the consultant said to just notify them and carry on.

Don't tell anyone but a certain 1000/300-something watt station may have tried to test that 500 watt level to see if it made any difference and it actually did.  But no one knows about it except me and Professor Ford and she forgot.

Mike Shane in Omaha

> On September 30, 2018 at 8:58 PM KBGN AM <kbgn@kbgnradio.com> wrote: 
> 
> 
> Here at KBGN, to complement our 10kW daytime power, we are allowed 250W PSA and a monthly varying power for the first hour after sunset; then 58W for the second and final hour after sunset, making for a total of about 13 different power levels throughout the year. We could use fewer power levels by sacrificing maximum allowable le els for some months, but we squeeze out every puny watt. Unfortunately, the Commission hasn't seen the need to modify the antiquated and no longer necessary clear channel rules to allow daytime stations like ours to push harder against the 50kW priority signals at night.
>  
> I use a Sine Systems transmitter controller communicating with a homebrew software program via dedicated phone line to automatically control the power levels. The software, which reprograms certain memory locations daily, must have data files updated one or more times a year to stay current. There are no 'fancy dancy' interface displays, but it has automatically set, monitored and adjusted power levels for two transmitters since 2004, making unattended operation possible.
>  
> Incidentally, I have had numerous DX reports from Scandinavia while operating at those 'flea powers'.
>  
> Nels Wilson 
> 
> 
> > On Sep 30, 2018 at 5:26 PM, < mrradiodad@aol.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > This station is a Class D 
> > 
> > 
> > Bill 
> > 
> > 
> > From: Ed Trombley [mailto:ETrombley@munn-reese.com] 
> > Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2018 2:58 PM
> > To: crtech@crtech.org
> > Subject: Re: [CRTech] AM Power level question to the Oracle.... 
> > 
> > 
> > Hello This is Thumbs Feebleman:
> > 
> > 
> > I am not an Oracle.  I am an FCC Theologian.  If you do not get my sporadically published newsletter, it is time to start, Thumbs@Munn-Reese.com
> > 
> > 
> > First item you need in an old gray haired consulting engineer who understands AM radio.  A consulting engineer is someone who has trained him or herself to do quickly and accurately things that a broadcast station my request only once or twice in a lifetime.  Been there and done that.
> > 
> > 
> > On the topic of Pre Sun Rise Authority (PSRA) and Post Sun Set Authority (PSSA), as far as I know it can still be done if the station meets certain requirements.
> > 
> > 
> > The big advantages are for class D, daytime stations with peanut power at night.  It also depends on what channel your operating on.  Class B stations have options too.
> > 
> > 
> > The rules state that the station just has to request PSA or PSSA operation from the AM branch at the FCC.  The last I remember and it has been several years.  The AM guys at the FCC came back and said, “Go hire a consulting engineer and have him do the calculations”.  We did and helped the local class B station get PSA at 500 watts non-directional at 6:00 AM.  The 500 watts during January covers much more of the county than the 1000 watts does into the three tower nighttime array.
> > 
> > 
> > I could blab all day and you would learn little.  
> > 
> > 
> > So!  Here comes your homework.
> > 
> > 
> > Find [www.FCC.gov](http://www.FCC.gov)
> > 
> > 
> > Find 47 CFR.
> > 
> > 
> > Find parts 70 to 79.
> > 
> > 
> > Find and study 73.99 of the rules. You could just find an old consultant.
> > 
> > 
> > Thank you!  
> > 
> > 
> > Thumbs
> > 
> > 
> > On 9/30/2018 3:31 PM, Kevin Kidd wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > The flea power levels are still valid as long as you have the original document sent by the FCC.  I have been told that the FCC no longer has the software to generate those documents and do not have most of them on file for stations...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Terry, back in the 80's, the FCC automatically granted very low night powers to many daytimers.  The power was calculated to cover the CoL at some percentage of interference via skywave.  I don't recall the exact methodology as I was just a wet behind the ears wire fixer at the time...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Most of the powers were down in the sub-100w but I have a few clients that have several incremental powers that change with time after sunset.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Kevin C. Kidd, CSRE/AMD
> > > Lawrenceburg, TN
> > > AM Ground Systems Company  -  WD4RAT
> > > kkidd@kkbc.com  --  866-22-RADIO -- 866-227-2346
> > > [www.amgroundsystems.com](http://www.amgroundsystems.com)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 2:52 AM <tcowan@knlr.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > I was not aware of the multi level post sunset. There were pre-sunrise and critical hours as I recall. But more importantly, you should follow whatever the license says
> > > > Terry Cowan
> > > > KNLR/KNLX
> > > > 
> > > > September 29, 2018 4:52 PM, "Bill" <%22Bill%22%20%3Cmrradiodad@aol.com%3E> wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > > Back in the 80’s, the FCC granted flea power at night to a lot of daytime AM’s. At that time they issued licenses with multiple steps of power starting at local sunset, eventually getting down to the authorized flea power overnight. I note that more recent issuing’s of the licenses only show the final low power, not the interim steps. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > So, the great question is, are those intermediate power levels Post Sunset and Pre Sunrise still valid? 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Bill Glenn 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > American Christian Network 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >    
> > 
> > 
> >
References: AM Power level question to the Oracle....
("Bill" <mrradiodad@aol.com>, 29 Sep 2018 23:51:46 -0000)
Re: AM Power level question to the Oracle....
(tcowan@knlr.com, 30 Sep 2018 00:45:56 -0000)
Re: AM Power level question to the Oracle....
(Kevin Kidd <kkbroadcastengineering@gmail.com>, 30 Sep 2018 19:31:32 -0000)
Re: AM Power level question to the Oracle....
(Ed Trombley <ETrombley@munn-reese.com>, 30 Sep 2018 21:58:36 -0000)
Re: RE: AM Power level question to the Oracle....
(KBGN AM <kbgn@kbgnradio.com>, 1 Oct 2018 00:58:11 -0000)
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