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Re: Phasing Issues? **UPDATE**
To: CRTech <crtech@crtech.org>
Subject: Re: Phasing Issues? **UPDATE**
From: Terry Cowan <tcowan@knlr.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:56:55 -0700
In-reply-to: <94E70214-2E4B-4196-A5AF-42DEA23CA365@unwsp.edu>
References: <36946D292176674E957C13106F0CC784B5F58BFF@EMP-MB-02.emp.ark.nwc.edu> <CAJHfeBsa_Wmgz+PxzT0_e08ntpgX1dkdXrt8wyjDz5Oc4Bzb7g@mail.gmail.com> <36946D292176674E957C13106F0CC784B5F59F5F@EMP-MB-02.emp.ark.nwc.edu> <CAE10cw_Evrm97Yzu2AHaRxL-9D2NnLsPqC0mskt6gm0ESiAXFA@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20170412071020.07bf4f50@oldradio.com> <E2CDAC21-9457-43D1-8D7D-7D3E93053506@ieee.org> <94E70214-2E4B-4196-A5AF-42DEA23CA365@unwsp.edu>
User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0
It's pretty hard to really get the HD and analog in sync by listening. Even using a scope it seems to change around. We use the DaySequerra M4DDC to keep in sync.

Terry Cowan

KNLR/HD1/HD2/KNLX


On 04/15/17 10:39, Allard, Mark G wrote:
I wonder how many engineers out there manage HD and have the 'privilege' of adjusting diversity with headphones?  Our HD receivers have a function that puts the legacy audio on the left channel and the HD1 audio on the right.  It's quite the experience to 'zero in' the time delay between the two.  This is an example of playing with wavelength and time delay.  As the time delay is adjusted slowly until the two are in sync, there can be low frequencies in the music that sound in phase but they are actually 360 or 720 or more, degrees out of phase.  When the two are in sync, L+R audio will sound like it's in the center of your head.  An interesting phenomenon is that even though the levels on the headphones are equal left and right, if the time delay is adjusted milliseconds the L+R audio will appear to move to the left ear then the right.  The brain is very sensitive to time delay.
Mark A

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 15, 2017, at 10:02, Sherrod Munday <smunday@ieee.org> wrote:

On Apr 12, 2017, at 10:11, Barry Mishkind <crtech@oldradio.com> wrote:
       As noted, it sometimes is easier in headphones, as you
       are quickly sited in the middle, but even with speakers,
       spoken word or singing is 99% clearly "in the middle"
       of the sound horizon when in phase.
FWIW, the exception to this case is if the mixing engineer has intentionally built a sound stage where the performers/singers/actors etc. have been panned to be in different places acoustically.  It's not usually done with a single vocalist, but for something like a round-table multi-party interview it makes some sense.  Likewise the technique might be found in some music recordings with backup singers, etc.

In such cases, an audio vector scope (as John Stortz mentions) may show an unbalanced off-axis line with mono speech, and it would shift around as different speakers are heard (though it would be tougher to see with stereo audio effects as typically heard during musical selections).

There's definitely an art to soundscaping and mixing audio.  Too much, and it's unnatural and distracting; none makes it just as uninteresting (and therefore non-distracting) as the last spoken selection before it.

—
Sherrod Munday
<smunday@ieee.org>


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References: RE: Re: Phasing Issues? **UPDATE**
("Allard, Mark G" <MGAllard@unwsp.edu>, 10 Apr 2017 17:51:07 -0000)
Re: Re: Phasing Issues? **UPDATE**
(BIll Moede <bmoedereplay@gmail.com>, 10 Apr 2017 18:56:09 -0000)
RE: Re: Phasing Issues? **UPDATE**
("Allard, Mark G" <MGAllard@unwsp.edu>, 10 Apr 2017 19:49:27 -0000)
Re: Re: Phasing Issues? **UPDATE**
(John Stortz <ka4flx@gmail.com>, 12 Apr 2017 05:11:25 -0000)
Re: Re: Phasing Issues? **UPDATE**
(Barry Mishkind <crtech@oldradio.com>, 12 Apr 2017 18:12:13 -0000)
Re: Phasing Issues? **UPDATE**
(Sherrod Munday <smunday@ieee.org>, 15 Apr 2017 15:01:59 -0000)
Re: Phasing Issues? **UPDATE**
("Allard, Mark G" <MGAllard@unwsp.edu>, 15 Apr 2017 17:40:04 -0000)
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